HiveOS 6.2 release for AP370 and AP390 planned?

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I was hoping for a new HiveOS release for AP370 and AP390 with 6.2r1, but we are still on 6.0r2e here...

Which still has quite a few limitations:

Feature Limitations for the AP370 and AP390
The AP370 and AP390 platforms do not currently support the following features:
• Router mode
• Voice Enterprise (802.11k/r/v) and WMM-Admission Control
• IEEE 802.11w (protected management frames)
• Spectrum analysis
• Conversion of multicast frames to unicast frames
• Location services to track the location of clients

In other words: Besides of the stronger radio array, I currently see no reason to install AP370 instead of AP230, especially with the price point of the latter.

Do you have any news / roadmap on the AP370 / AP390 HiveOS development?

Thanks,
carsten
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Carsten Buchenau, Champ

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Posted 4 years ago

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Jason Istre

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I'm also having quite a few problems with dropped connections and clients that show connected but stop pinging.  Users complain daily and I'm not sure what to do except wait for new firmware or replace all AP370s with AP230s.  I found my exact log messages in other posts with people saying the issues were fixed in various levels of 6.1 for other models APs.  Anyone else in this same situation??
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Deven Ducommun, Beta Program Manager

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Hi Carsten,

We do have plans to put the AP 370/390 on the current code line and put the fixes and features from 6.1 and 6.2 into the platform.  I will let PLM talk specifically to the roadmap and timetables for doing this but this is a concern we are actively working on removing from the 370/390 platform.  


jjt3hii if you are having issues like that I suggest calling support to see if they are in fact code issues or other problems that can be worked around.  

Thanks,

Deven
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Carsten Buchenau, Champ

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Thanks Deven!
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Jan Boje

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Hi Deven
Is it possible to see the roadmap/timetables for ap370/ap390 ?

I can't fully understand what is that you are removing ?
 
"I will let PLM talk specifically to the roadmap and timetables for doing this but this is a concern we are actively working on removing from the 370/390 platform."
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Nick Lowe, Official Rep

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It is just the style of English that he has used that I suspect is probably difficult for a non-native speaker.

He means that this is an problem that they are working to resolve by going through and removing the issues that are blocking them from having a unified release.
(Edited)
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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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Exactly correct. We intend to bring the AP370/390 up to parity with the other APs, but have some issues to resolve first. I cannot share a timeline in this public forum other than to say we are proceeding as quickly as we can.
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Jeff Wallis

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We are having the same issues with our AP 390 models.  Clients connected - but can't get any traffic through.  I have opened several cases with Aerohive and 6 months later - still not resolved.
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Carsten Buchenau, Champ

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Jeff, the end-of-life for AP340 was announced in November 2012:
http://www.aerohive.com/support/endoflifeproducts.html

However - you can still keep them running, just not on the latest Firmware. Which is actually a good thing, because the hardware specs of this platform are not sufficient anymore to meet the requirements of new Firmware versions. You don't get this with most other vendors, as Access Points usually have to run on the same version as the Controller.

There are many comments about this in the forum, and it's the same for AP110 and AP120: You can still operate them, but you keep them on an older firmware version. Have another search around, and you'll find more information on feature compatibility etc.

Anyway, although 6.x is available, I'd recommend the latest 5.x for those hardware platforms. Most stable for the resources available.
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Nick Lowe, Official Rep

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I wouldn't recommend 5.x due to security vulnerabilities in those HiveOS versions.

Hopefully we'll see greater stability with the AP110 and AP120 in 6.4r1.
For now, scheduling a means to reboot at unsociable hours via SSH seems to be a functioning workaround for these APs.

I think a salient point is that Aerohive document that they are committed to providing further software updates through to end of life for the 320/340 on the HiveOS 6.1 branch if there is a sufficient need and justification to do so, there just won't be any further feature development on these legacy APs.

(Future security vulnerabilities, for example, would be one such need.)
(Edited)
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Carsten Buchenau, Champ

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Good point, thanks Nick!
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Nick Lowe, Official Rep

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There's a mistake in what I wrote. I didn't realise that the HiveAP AP110 and AP120 won't get 6.4r1, 6.2r1b is due for these in late December. Interestingly, the AP170 and BR100 won't, it seems, get any further feature updates either:

Some HiveOS devices are not capable of running version 6.4r1 software. The last version of HiveOS for AP320/340 was version 6.1. Customers with these platforms should upgrade to version 6.1r6b when it is available. The last version of HiveOS for AP110/120/170 and BR100 was version 6.2. Customers with these platforms should upgrade to version 6.2r1b when it is available.
(Edited)
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Steven Bateman

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I'm also eagerly waiting for this update.

I've also had dropped connections and loss of ability to ping, only on the 5 GHz radio, sometimes randomly, other times it can be reproduced. Completely weird problem, because it doesn't affect entire connectivity. Sometimes you lose the ability to ping, other times a VDI is started and the client loses all TCP sessions but keeps UDP sessions. So the VDI session works, but everything else does not. Traffic makes it to the AP and back, that's verified by packet analysis.

I can sometimes reproduce the behavior with a port scan on an external IP while pinging the default gateway.

After troubleshooting for a year or so, Aerohive support and I so far have a potential lead with the TV web filter from TeacherView being added and removed from the traffic. Problem is, we don't use TeacherView.
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Steven Bateman

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Unfortunately no, not yet. We're in the stage where support and I have combed extensively through debug logs looking for anything. Now that we've found anomalous tv web filter logs, I'm having a hard time reproducing the issue myself. And since it's random, unless I catch a user having the issue, I miss the opportunity to capture debug logs.

So it's a slow slog towards a resolution at the moment. I'm hoping we get a HiveOS update very soon regardless. Otherwise I'm to the point where I'd like to rip the 390s out and put in AP230s, which have proven themselves to be reliable so far.
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Larry

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Steven and Jeff,

We have just installed 4 new AP390s in high client locations (theater and gym) and we are for the first time using Aerohive having issues with clients connected. They get an IP via DHCP but no Internet. Sometimes re-booting the client works, sometimes turning wi-fi off and on works, etc.  It seems completely random.  Meaning one teacher who had issues last Friday on one of the 390s is fine on Monday, but then will have issues on Tuesday.  We are a mixed environment (Macs, Windows, iOS, Android, Chrome OS, etc.).

I am now regretting purchasing these and may simply go back to the 230's.  I see 6.4r1 was just released but no love for 390s.  Since you two have open cases, has there been any headway?  Does this sound familiar to you?  Have you swapped the 390's for the 230's?  Do you have any hope that the 390's will be fixed as it seems, while I JUST installed these two weeks ago, there have been problems going on for months?
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Steven Bateman

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Larry,

I did make headway in my case, but I'm not sure how relevant my info will be. 

The TeacherView lead was a dead end, however we did have a larger than normal number of TCP sessions from affected clients. After doing some extensive protocol analysis on either side of the AP, I found that there were issues with a client responding to a server's request after making a request itself. You could see this most easily in the TCP 3-way handshake. Here's a short example from the wifi1 radio (eth0 was identical):

|         |(58760)  ------------------>  (12350)  |
|15:31:24 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58760)  <------------------  (12350)  |
|15:31:24 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58760)  <------------------  (12350)  |
|15:31:24 |         SYN       |                   |Seq = 0
|         |(58762)  ------------------>  (443)    |
|15:31:24 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58762)  <------------------  (443)    |
|15:31:25 |         SYN       |                   |Seq = 0
|         |(58760)  ------------------>  (12350)  |
|15:31:25 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58760)  <------------------  (12350)  |
|15:31:25 |         SYN       |                   |Seq = 0
|         |(58762)  ------------------>  (443)    |
|15:31:25 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58762)  <------------------  (443)    |
|15:31:25 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58762)  <------------------  (443)    |
|15:31:26 |         SYN       |                   |Seq = 0
|         |(58760)  ------------------>  (12350)  |
|15:31:26 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58760)  <------------------  (12350)  |
|15:31:26 |         SYN       |                   |Seq = 0
|         |(58775)  ------------------>  (80)     |
|15:31:26 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58775)  <------------------  (80)     |
|15:31:26 |         SYN, ACK  |                   |Seq = 0 Ack = 1
|         |(58760)  <------------------  (12350)  |
|15:31:26 |         SYN       |                   |Seq = 0
|         |(58762)  ------------------>  (443)    |

As you can see the session never gets started.So it's either a client or client compatibility issue as traffic is being passed normally and the analysis shows the 802.11 traffic is being ACKed appropriately and is not otherwise malformed.

As mostly Macs are affected at our site, I thought it would be helpful while we wait for 10.10.2 to make the WLAN infrastructure as amenable and compatible as possible. So we took the following actions, one at a time, testing and gauging user experience after each one:

  • Turn off Dynamic Airtime Scheduling (no effect)
  • Re-enabled 1, 2, 5.5 Mbps data rates (no effect)
  • Turned off Short Guard Interval (no effect)
  • Turned off Band Steering (moderate effect, only from having more clients not be on the problematic 5 Ghz radio)
  • Turned off A-MPDU on the advice of a visiting Aerohive SE (effect remains to be seen, just did this last Friday morning)

I have a couple more planned ideas if the issue continues:

  •  Disable 802.11ac radio mode, and use an 802.11a/n radio profile on 5 GHz
  • The SE let me know of a support case that was remedied by changing something with QoS classifier maps, but I need to clarify the specifics.
For your issue, the first thing I would do is use the Remote Sniffer function with your favorite protocol analysis program and capture from both sides of the AP. You'll want to decrypt the traffic because the chances are the 802.11 frames in the air will be normal, and therefore unhelpful. Then looking at the flows between one or two problematic clients and the rest of the infrastructure will probably give you an idea of what's going wrong.

The other option, which I also endorse if it's the easiest solution, is to replace them with AP230s.

EDIT: To answer your last question, obviously there's issues with the QCA chipset in these APs, and that is most likely the culprit for why it's taking longer than normal. I can't speak to whether Aerohive has issues with the platform on top of that or whether it's just a really sticky chipset, but I do think it will be fixed. Aerohive is good about that.  I just think it hasn't been fixed quickly enough, and the issues have been persistent and widespread enough that I'd rather trust my production networks to a different platform at this time.
(Edited)
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Greg Moore

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Not sure if the 390s are like the 370s, but there may be a firmware update that you're missing.

I once thought that update > update devices > Hive OS would always install the latest firmware. This is not the case. For the 370s there was an additional update available by going to Update > Advanced > Upload and Activate Hive OS Firmware. This took our 370s from an older 6.0r2 revision to revision 6.0r2e.

This made the issue you describe less frequent for us, though it still occurs. And yes, this problem has been present for many months.
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Larry

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Hi Greg,

Thanks but all our 390s are already 6.0r2e.  Many months?  Ouch.  Wish I had read this thread before we bought them.
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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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FYI, the only real differences between the AP370 and the AP390 are in the antennas. They run the same software image. 

Earlier comments and speculation about the unique chipset in these platforms contributing to our delays in getting new versions of code published are absolutely correct. It has NOT been our intention to take this long to get them up to feature parity with the rest of our product line.

Our current plans are to release another 6.0r2 image this quarter to address the various customer found defects that have been causing pain for so many customers, and to leapfrog over intevening releases and release a 6.4 image next calendar quarter that will bring these devices to feature parity.

I know this is disappointing to many customers. It has taken more time and resources than we planned, but we remain committed to doing right by our customers.
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Kevin Gee

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Thanks Nick. So the posts say that to incorporate AP 370/390 (or the forgotten models as we may start calling them ;-) into NG they will have to update the HiveOS firmware at some point, but non further clarification of timescale.
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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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Kevin,
We are still working on the AP370/390 image.

We will not be able to deliver it in Q2 of this year, but I have good confidence in Q3, possibly as early as mid-August.

The two biggest challenges we had, implementing WIPS and Spectrum Analysis, are finally now both done, and we are knocking down the final set of known bugs. 

I know that a ton of people have been extremely patient with us in getting this done, and I appreciate that. 
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Kevin Gee

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<sigh> Thanks for the update Mike but I can't say I have confidence in your release date given the previous estimate. I do think early adopters like ourselves are suffering, I've been holding out for the update as my company still has an office suffering a lot of problems and I can't discount the AP 370s :-( I am still waiting for an AP370 buy-back price from my reseller, will Aerohive offer this as it seems they can't support the hardware?
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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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Kevin,
I don't blame you for being skeptical. In your shoes, I would be too. 

No, Aerohive does not have a formal buy-back program. We ARE supporting this platform, we just released HiveOS 6.0r2f in March to address a number of outstanding bugs. 
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Kevin Gee

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Thanks Mike, apologies if my comments were a little reactive, I'm just disappointed having waited months for this update. I wouldn't want to put you off sharing info in future! 
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Eddie Klaczko

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Larry, If you have a support case open maybe engineering can get you a software image they are working on to see if it helps fix your issues?  When we were first considering deploying some 230s we ran into some multicast problems.  Engineering gave us a software image they were working on and we ran that until 6.2r1.  Probably not something they want to do everywhere, but if you're having so much trouble maybe they'll work with you.
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Bob Ogden

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Looks like the notes say you can upgrade the 370s and 390s to 6.4r1. But it won't allow you to when you try.

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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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Bob,
Thanks for pointing that out. I guess it's now obvious that we were hoping to release 6.4r1 at the same time as other platforms. I will look at possibly getting that corrected at least on the HMOL instances so we don't further confuse people.
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danny

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is there any date set for the 370 firmware release?  I'm getting killed by all the drops and issues tied to these things and may look just dump the whole lot if I can't get an answer soon
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Nick Lowe, Official Rep

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You should talk to your point of support, be it Aerohive directly or a VAR. This is very much the wrong forum for that type of discussion.
(Edited)
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Kevin Gee

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>>This is very much the wrong forum for that type of discussion.

Given that our VAR only found out about these issues in this thread, and that AP370s are still being sold despite these problems, it seems legitimate to explore any viable avenue of communication.
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Larry

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First, I LOVE Aerohive and their products. I have deployed 100+ AP230s to much success. I only realized this problem when I recently purchased four AP390s a couple months ago. That being said, had I bought 100+ AP370s instead of AP230s, I would be rightfully livid at the lack of progress over many, many months.  This is the definition of ridiculous.
(Edited)
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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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Larry,
We hear you.

Please be aware, though, that the participants here are a somewhat self-selected group and you are seeing only one side of the perception of our products and their quality.

We do have many many customers who have these platforms, who have never experienced any of the problems reported here, and who never contact our support organization or visit this community site.

With that said, I am monumentally embarrassed at the amount of time it has taken us to address these issues. I sincerely hope we can re-establish your trust in us.
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Bob Ogden

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HI All,

I have been a customer since March 2014 and have loved the product. My frustration was with the full parity. Although I have to say the 121s, 330s, 350s, 370s, and 390s have all worked really well. Each day we have over 600 devices connected with zero issues.  We are a BYOD environment with PPSK enabled on our SSID so users have to authenticate with their personal key. Since updating to 6.0r2e on the 370 and 390s we have had no issues with users connecting. 

Hope this helps and can't endorse the product enough.

Best,
Bob
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Kevin Gee

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Likewise :-( Already had to remove an Apple airport device which out customers perceive as giving a better service then 'expensive' Aerohives!
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Eddy

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At the top of my management window, I am receiving a Notification that some of my APs are not running the same software version as the manager is.  I assume that message is referring to our AP390s since everything else is matched with our Hive Manager at 6.4r1 while the AP390s are still at 6.0r2e.  Since the last note on this list is from 3 weeks ago, I thought it might be worth asking if there is any information about when there will be a newer (if not completely up-to-date) version for the AP390s.
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Nick Lowe, Official Rep

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Good news! 6.0r2f is now available for the AP370/AP390.

I suggest that anybody affected by stability issues with these APs update as soon as possible:



The note that Aerohive have sent out pertaining to this release states:
This update is to inform you that a new version of HiveOS has been released for the AP370 and AP390 platforms and is available for download from our Support Portal on Tuesday, March 3rd. This new 6.0r2f HiveOS image for the AP370 and AP390 platforms contains the latest fixes for these platforms, the list of which can be found in the release notes.
Link to 6.0r2f release notes: 
http://www.aerohive.com/330000/docs/help/english/documentation/6-0r2f_HiveOS_ReleaseNotes_330095-02f.pdf
Part of this release process is the removal of the previous 6.0r2e HiveOS images for the AP370 and AP390 from all on-premises and online HiveManager systems, replacing it with the new 6.0r2f HiveOS image. By default this action will not automatically upgrade any of your devices to the latest build, you will be able to upgrade at your leisure, though we do encourage you to upgrade to take advantage of the latest fixes.
The image itself will not be replaced until one week later on Tuesday, March 10th to provide you with the time needed to make the necessary adjustments to any auto provisioning or other configuration to accommodate this new image.
Support Contact Information
If you have additional questions or concerns, please contact your Aerohive distributor or Aerohive Technical Support before the scheduled update.
(Edited)
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Larry

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Has anyone updated their 390's with this?  Has it fixed the issues for you?
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Carsten Buchenau, Champ

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Slightly off-topic, but related: HMOL tells us that the latest firmware version for AP370/390 is 6.4. Which caused some confusion with one of our resellers...



@Aerohive: Can you check (and correct if necessary)?

Thanks!
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Jeff Wallis

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I have upgraded ours to the newest and still have the same issues. The only way to make the 390 access points usable is to turn off the 5Ghz radio on them and only use the 2.4Ghz radio.
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Mike Kouri, Official Rep

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Carsten,
Do you have an on-premises HiveManager, or HMOL? If HMOL, please send email to mkouri (at) aerohive.com with your VHM-ID and I'll have someone look into this. 

FWIW, I just checked my own HMOL instances, both 6.4r1 and 6.5r1, and neither shows a 6.4r1 software image for AP370/390.
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BJ, Champ

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I'm showing the latest as 6.0r2f.
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Nick Lowe, Official Rep

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In case anybody here missed it, HiveOS 6.5r2 is now available for the AP370/AP390:

https://community.aerohive.com/aerohive/topics/hiveos-6-5r2-for-ap370-390-now-released