Bonjour Gateway Free - System stops advertising some entries?

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I used to have the common iOS can't print issue, so I upgraded and now all that works fine.

However, since I upgraded to 5.1r2a.0905 I am having a new problem.

I have a bunch of printers being re-broadcast out to the network. After running for a couple hours, some of them start dropping out.

If I look on the subnet where the print server is, I can see they are still being advertised, the gateway just isn't seeing them. If I reboot the gateway, all my entries immediately come back to life correctly.

I have 76 services and 4 vlans

Any idea what might be going on? Anyone else seeing something like this?

Karl P
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Karl Peterson

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Posted 5 years ago

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Karl Peterson

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For further information, it is never all the services, they will slowly drop out of the list until the gateway shows i have somewhere around 50~60 services.

The ones to drop out first seem to be the most important / used ones.

It doesn't just drop printers, it will drop all service types (e.g. _ipp._tcp. / _http._tcp. / _afpovertcp._tcp.) It also doesn't seem to be relegated to a specific host. AKA while my print server has the most advertisements by far, there are probably 4 or 5 other hosts with advertisements, and those will drop out of the list just as easily as the print server itself.
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Karl Peterson

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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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Struggling with a simular issue but using the Bonjour-gateway on the APs

http://community.aerohive.com/aerohiv...

the free Bonjour Gateway has a limit of 500 services before filtering

So I think the math is
# of devices X # of services offered X # of Vlans
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Karl Peterson

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The link was helpful.

I am very aware of the limit, but apparently the limit is before filtering? That's news to me.

That's a killer. I run mostly OSX networks. I have mDNS services all over the place. Most of it is filtered out, and I am only running 3 or 4 vlans, so in reality i only have about 2 or 3 hundred "slots", but pre-filtering there is many more.

Any ideas what else I can do?

AVAHI is my only other real option right? Does anyone here know if it has the same troubles?

I have heard there is a way to boost the number of services on the free bonjour gateway, anyone with any ideas how to do that?

Karl P
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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When I ran AVAHI I hit a service advertisement limit, but that was with 2 schools and about 20 VLANs with 98% MAC OSX and IOS so it died in 30 minutes.

Maybe running multiple Bonjour Gateways with smaller areas may help.

A
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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Hey Karl

Just some more info to share, or random thoughts if you would like

*Bonjour is a suite of protocols - basically AppleTalk replacement for IP networks

The bonjour filter is just for re-advertisements from the bonjour-gateway to the other vlans.

so from learned vlan to other vlans with bouncer in the middle

So first there is mDNS registration of name to IP then there is Service Discovery
found this article helpful

https://developer.apple.com/library/i...

For printers:
"Registration is performed using one of the Bonjour APIs. This functionality is available only to services running on the host computer or iOS device. Services running on other devices, such as printers, need to implement a simple mDNSResponder daemon that handles queries for services provided by that device."

so for a vlan - layer 2 - if you are listening to a multicast group you will join that group or open the frame and look in side.
I haven't used a protocol analyzer yet, which plan on doing if time allows.

But tonight I am going to read these

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc6762.txt
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc6763.txt

The working group was orginally chartered to
develop a requirements specification for host and application
operation in environments lacking configuration. The areas
for consideration included:

* Interface Configuration (IP address, network prefix,
gateway router)

* Name-to-Address Translation

* Service Discovery

* Automatic allocation of Multicast Addresses

* Sufficient security features to prevent networks
from being any less secure than networks which do not use
ZEROCONF protocols

The ZEROCONF WG could not come to a consensus regarding these
requirements. A ZEROCONF requirements document will not be
published by this working group.

Cheers
A
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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@ Anyone @ Aerohive

The help file says forwards service advertisements.

from the help file
"Bonjour is a protocol that Apple devices use to advertise available services within a VLAN/subnet. Aerohive devices can function as Bonjour Gateways and forward service advertisements across VLAN/subnet boundaries. Services in one VLAN or subnet then become available to users in other VLANs/subnets."

Forwarding implies routing or switching

David's article says
http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-wi...

"First of all, it is important to understand that the chosen Bonjour Gateway device does not route the bonjour traffic, instead, it provides responses to Bonjour discovery requests from Bonjour client devices to services learned on different subnets."
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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Also anyone @ Aerohive

I assume the Bonjour gateway queries the vlans to learn the offered services and then acts as a responder. Does it follow the Known-Answer Suppression mechanism?

From RFC 6762

"Therefore, when retransmitting Multicast DNS queries to implement
this kind of continuous monitoring, the interval between the first
two queries MUST be at least one second, the intervals between
successive queries MUST increase by at least a factor of two, and the
querier MUST implement Known-Answer Suppression, as described below

The Known-Answer Suppression mechanism tells
responders which answers are already known to the querier, thereby
allowing responders to avoid wasting network capacity with pointless
repeated transmission of those answers. A querier retransmits its
question because it wishes to receive answers it may have missed the
first time, not because it wants additional duplicate copies of
answers it already received. Failure to implement Known-Answer
Suppression can result in unacceptable levels of network traffic.
When the interval between queries reaches or exceeds 60 minutes, a
querier MAY cap the interval to a maximum of 60 minutes, and perform
subsequent queries at a steady-state rate of one query per hour. To
avoid accidental synchronization when, for some reason, multiple
clients begin querying at exactly the same moment (e.g., because of
some common external trigger event), a Multicast DNS querier SHOULD
also delay the first query of the series by a randomly chosen amount
in the range 20-120 ms."

Cheers
A
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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Is there anyway to remove my guest vlan from the bonjour query and responder? I assume the mgt0 is needed to communicate with the other APs in the HIVE, but my guest vlan let's pretend is bgd0.1(50)(Done) surely does not need to know about AppleTV services.

Since I created a vlan just for the appleTV and assign the vlan via Radius, I don't think I would need to respond to them for anything, only query.

Is there an option to set an interface as query only, or query and respond or respond only?

List=bgd0.6(10)(Done) bgd0.5(20)(Done) bgd0.4(30)(Done) bgd0.3(40)(Done) bgd0.1(50)(Done) mgt0(60)(Done)
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Karl Peterson

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Andrew:

The information you are looking for (it appears that you want info on unicast DNS-SD) is probably here:

http://sybaspot.com/configuring-dns-t...

I haven't gone down this path as it looks like a management overhead killer.

However this is purely for airprint.

As of last year there was no way to make airplay work using this. Apparently it was concession to content networks in some way? Sounds crazy, but that's the rumor.

This person has figured out a way to re-broadcast from the command line on Win7 with bonjour services, however i suspect their is a limit to it's ability as well. Same management concerns too.

http://www.danieljchu.com/DanielJChu-...&

Nonetheless for airplay we are stuck with service re-broadcasting.

So the question is can we find someone to help us expand AVAHI's abilities? Can Aerohive expand the abilities of the free and/or pro product?

I see support notes saying that it is possible to expand at least the free version. Can support get in here on this?

Is it possible to use multiple gateways linked together to increase the service amount?

Thanks!

Karl P
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Karl Peterson

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Is there anything we can do to ask for an aerohive representative to comment on this thread?

I understand that we are asking about a free product, but it has been over 5 business days since I asked this question and still no knowledgeable response.

I'd even be willing to consider buying a Cloud VPN gateway or something like that and use it purely for bonjour if that's what it came too.

I know that the number of advertisements can be lifted by talking to support, but when I email the listing they tell me to post here.

It's all a bit (really) frustrating at the moment.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Karl P
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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Karl you should call Aerohive Sales, Or at least that is what I was told.
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Andrew MacTaggart, Champ

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Hey Karl

I had a thought. When I was talking aerohive tech support, they mentioned that the bonjour gateway will send a keep-alive packet out, I suppose it is just a mDNS query, so if a device goes into sleep mode it may not answer. The Bonjour-gateway will then remove the service entry. For my AppleTVs I found a service called sleep-proxy which will proxy answers to queries while the device sleeps. Maybe the printers are going into power save mode, maybe try 1 printer that never sleeps or see if there is a simular sleep-proxy service for the printer.

another interesting thing is supression factor.
where the client doubles the time between queries
so starting at 1sec then 2sec then 4 sec upto 1 hour. Once it hits 1 hour it seems to say at 1 hour, according to the mDNS rfc.

I still have to experiment with this because I have a feeling that since i-devices are much more likely to sleep to conserve battery, that if you wake up an ipad, it might start the query process all over again, where as a MBP or MBA maybe in constant use and there by the query time increases.

I don't know if the MBA and MBP have the same flushing of non responding devices [while they sleep], but it may be the case.

this may not be the answer if the services are over written by other devices advertising services.

Cheers
A
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Karl Peterson

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The issue looks like it may be related to memory. They ended up having me increase the virtual machines memory from the default 512MB to 2048MB. So far I have had two heavy days without issue. We will see how it continues to play out.

In the mean time, I believe that Aerohive may have a commercially supported answer for bonjour gateway sometime late Q4 or early '14Q1.

Hopefully they do at which time this all becomes easier.
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Emilio Maldonado

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Andrew,
I can confirm that our Bonjour Gateway products indeed implement the Known-Answer Suppression mechanism. Thanks for raising visibility of that mechanism in this forum.

It's possible that if devices go to sleep combined with the above mechanism results in devices disappearing. We're currently exploring the sleep-proxy mechanism.

Karl, don't worry about the 500 limit in the free bonjour. Seems like you are not reaching it, plus is a soft limit, we will not block services if you over 500. I know this is not answering entirely why services disappear, we're currently investigating a bug related to the flushing of services, our engineering team is determining if it's the case. I'll post here as soon as I get a confirmation and to follow up with our plans.

Emilio
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Karl Peterson

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Emillio,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I was just coming back to update that even after verifying that none of the devices are going to sleep, and raising the memory some services are still disappearing.

Please update us if you believe this "flushing" may be part of that.

At the moment I am slightly at a loss as to what to do.

Karl P
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Karl Peterson

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Scott M., Sr. Support Engineer

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Hello Karl,

I recommend you contact your service provider and have a support case opened for this issue.

Thank you,

Scott Myron
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Karl Peterson

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Scott,
I appreciate the response but how exactly can I do that? This is a free product and the support email address is no longer active.

I have talked with your sales team and there are no support options for free bonjour gateway.

Please advise.

Karl P
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Karl Peterson

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Scott M., Sr. Support Engineer

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Hello Karl,

Please reply and let me know the name of our organization. This will help me to know what support options are available.
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Karl Peterson

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ChapelHill is the client - you have already contacted me on my email, thanks! - I'll make sure to keep this open and continue reporting back where I am at.
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Scott M., Sr. Support Engineer

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Hello Karl,

6.1r3 will contain a fix for the condition you described. However, no firm release date has been established for 6.1r3.
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Karl Peterson

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Thanks for confirming the Bug. Hopefully we will here some feedback soon.